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Posts Tagged with Voting

Conscientious Objection

Posted on November 8November 14

This is a bit of my latest episode in which I respond to Tom Woods and Dave Smith's episode on a libertarian objection to voting Trump. Hear the whole thing below. Enjoy. -P

Hey, this is Pen up at the front here. I have a few introductory thoughts that should help set the forthcoming in good order. This is a response to Dave Smith and Tom Woods talking about why someone might have felt inclined to vote Trump, including themselves. Their conversation covers a lot of important stuff, so it merits some response, and a few really important points (maybe) went unaddressed, so I'm going to respond and contribute to the conversation, for whatever it’s worth. Election day has now passed, but I think that make this a better time to do this because it gives people less to get worked up about. “You’re going to talk people into not voting for-” That objection has passed. So there's that.

I want to say up front that I do appreciate these gents. I am criticizing their take, not them. I've been a fan of Dave Smith since seeing him on youtube videos of the insult comedy stuff at the Stand in New York. I can't remember if I'd heard of him liberty-wise before that or- that was my early memories of Dave-Smithery. Tom Woods is my gateway drug into libertarianism, so I very much appreciate his work. And really, who says it like Tom? And, mostly I agree with him on stuff. So having said all that, I want to get started with the disagreement, and there is one particular consideration I want to highlight up here at the front. I think it helps bring all of this into focus. It may sound trite at first, but just hold on. Hear me out. Here it is:

Opposing Harris did not require voting Trump. A candidate can be shown to be horrible (and Tom and Dave do a great job of that in their episode) and that, showing them horrible, that helps drive their success down to the point where they don't get elected. One can bring a candidate's success down somewhat, at least a single vote's worth. (That’s a low bar right?) They can bring the [opposing] candidate down a vote's worth instead of voting. How much does a single vote do, especially in a non-swing state? Maybe nothing . . .

  • x.com/ThomasEWoods
  • x.com/ComicDaveSmith
  • tomwoods.com/ep-2563-dave-smith-and-tom-woods-on-voting-trump

Penjammin grew up in a labyrinthine cavern. Later he ran with the wolves and lived every moment marinated in the sweet scent of his game, until pirates landed and… See About for full story, and get his eletter at penjams.com/subscribe.

Better Libertarianism

Posted on October 19November 14

This is a bit of my episode with Iowancap in which we discuss how Libertarianism might be served by considering how various schools of ethics relate. Hear the whole episode below. Enjoy. -P

Penjammin: I was just reading For a New Liberty by Rothbard, and his last chapter is a strategy for liberty . . . He makes one caveat in there that I thought was really fascinating and perhaps a little controversial, which is really what you're saying. The idea that– well, a conservative in Congress might prefer some sort of a policy compromise or a trade where they get a little bit of this, a little bit for that. Whereas a libertarian who might want agree with the conservative on the boon, you know, that's to be had (maybe lower taxes or something), but they won't also say, “okay, but for this, what we're going to do is we're going to introduce a new act of aggression by Washington, DC against the people.” I'm not going to positively support that. I'm going to hold principle. The goal is always not to be incrementalist or gradualist, but to have the whole thing now. But with that hope, you know, firmly in place, there's you accept gains as they come. You're not going to tell them no. But he always had that caveat. It's like, “but I'm not going to vote positively against my principles. I will accept gradual movement towards them, but I will not vote against them.” . . .

Iowancap: Yet, I think there there is also an idea where, sometimes you do go for less bad. Sometimes that is the move. I think. In fact, I suddenly realized, Pen, that this all worked out perfectly because I realized that it was that phrase that I told you that I really loved, that you said, that actually launched all this thinking for me.

Penjammin: Okay.

Iowancap: And that is when I saw it, it was in a in a group chat, I saw that you made the statement: The means must be worthy of the ends.

Penjammin: Yeah.

Iowancap: And I think that is really what I'm talking about. Yes, we should keep in mind the ends. We need to keep the goals in mind. And, we shouldn't live purely principally and say, “but let's not look at what works. Let's not look at strategy, let's not look at tactics. Let's not look at reality.” At the same time, we have to always keep our principles in mind because if the means are not worthy of the ends, then you could start asking the question: “Are we really going where we think we're going?”

Penjammin: Yeah.

Iowancap: Especially as a Christian, I think that's very important because obedience to the law of God, obedience to the gospel and to Christ's commands, that is ultimately a winning strategy, even if short term it is not.

Penjammin: Right. I mean, we've already won.

Iowancap: And so I think that's really where this whole tension of principles and strategy is so important. Yeah, let's look for strategic ways to get the gospel to go out. Let's look for strategic ways to accomplish and to carve out the freedom to do the work that the church needs to do. And yet, if we at any point find ourselves going against the law of God with a sort of ends justify the means sort of mentality, then– if the means are not worthy of the ends, then we should question whether or not the means are actually going to get us to the ends that we think we're going toward.

Penjammin: Yes, because that's how you trapped. I think when you play the game, you get played by the game. It doesn't work in the long run. And, that's how I think about third-party voting as well. But I'll leave that for another time.

  • Twitter: x.com/IowancapReborn
  • Usual Co-host: x.com/JParkYYC
  • Mentioned: Patrick
  • Mentioned: For a New Liberty by Rothbard
  • The Flyover Libertarian Podcast
  • The Anarchist Bible Study Podcast
  • The Flyover Libertarian Podcast Episode 23

Penjammin grew up in a labyrinthine cavern. Later he ran with the wolves and lived every moment marinated in the sweet scent of his game, until pirates landed and… See About for full story, and get his eletter at penjams.com/subscribe.

Freedom to not vote Trump

Posted on April 5November 14

Yep. I recommended the Tim Stratton as a good account to follow. He has many merits as a public thinker and as an advocate of multiple freedoms: political, metaphysical, and (as a Christian) spiritual. But he's not perfect (wouldn't ya know it?), and right after I recommended him, he went and re-forwarded his ideas that Christians are morally required to vote for Trump and also- Well, let's just say he sounds a little Christian National*ish*. Thanks Tim! 😉 (Hey, we have to be real, and it's how he really feels. I get that.)

Well, since I recommended his work (and I still do), I get to respond to those two things, those two ideas that I most certainly do not recommend. But first, a positive: his Trumpy article represents a real effort to explicate his case in an easy to understand way. Also, it may be the best defense of voting for Trump (“I felt like I should, and here's why!”) even if it is also, unfortunately, an imperative for others to do so too.

Previously, I distilled Tim's Trump argument to this: Voting for Trump is a big offensive against a yuge evil, and Christians should do everything they can to fight against that evil. So, Christians should vote for Trump. Now, that's pretty accurate. But I think we can make it better, make it also account for exceptions to the rule that Tim admits to (exceptions like over-worked single moms who don't have the time to vote). Also, this rendering focuses on Christians who actually can vote (U.S. citizens who aren't felons and so forth):

  1. If an able Christian doesn’t vote Trump, they neglect a fight against a particularly yuge evil.
  2. If an able Christian neglects that fight, they do wrong.
  3. So, if an able Christian doesn’t vote for Trump, they do wrong.

I imagine most people sympathize with premise 2. That's where the force of the argument is. But premise 1 is far from obvious. It assumes both (a) that it is ethical to vote for Trump and (b) that voting for him would make a difference in the case of all able Christians. (Failing to do something unethical is hardly negligence, nor is failing to do something insignificant.) But first, it is not obvious that this voting for (the lesser) evil is ethical, especially if one has taken an oath to defend the constitution. (More on that linked below.) Furthermore, many able Christians live in red states where Trump will get the electoral vote, even if they vote against him. Voting for him is not likely to change anything.

So, an able Christian does not neglect a fight that is already won or lost in his state. He need not combat Marxism by contributing to (or resisting) an all but guaranteed outcome, especially if their conscience is against it. He can find more efficient and effective ways to combat Marxism.

For more on this, I have an old two-parter that responds both to Tim Stratton and William Lane Craig on a similar matter. Check it out at penjams.com/i-will-do-mine.

Penjammin grew up in a labyrinthine cavern. Later he ran with the wolves and lived every moment marinated in the sweet scent of his game, until pirates landed and… See About for full story, and get his eletter at penjams.com/subscribe.

Sound Sense

Posted on December 7November 14

Ken brings a poetic flare to things, and it makes them better. He's working what seems like a raw cross between Alexander Pope and a freestyle rapper, and it's fun. Below are a couple favs, with his blessing. -Pen

Libertarians thinking to vote Republican,
Just because they cannot stand the other man?
If a majority vote to burn the house down,
We prepare our homes for the storm unbound.
Sometimes people need to make mistakes,
To change their mind that is what it takes.
#VoteYourPrinciples

The world is a complex place,
Each experience has its own face.
Saying that your solution fits all,
Is authoritarianism’s sirens call.
Let’s each other to liberty leave,
And let reality our ideas sieve.
#VoteGold

Great to see #NolibertariansUnder1K,
When we normally to ourselves stay.
We wade into the war of broader culture,
Though our soul feels thrown into a mulcher.
The daggers well sharpened from infight,
Let us turn to exposing the statist blight.


Ken N. is “just a libertarian guy, ain't gonna lie. A bit of a crooner, I also read Spooner. Mackin' on some reeses, while I chill with some Mises.” You can follow him at www.twitter.com/shoganate.

Don't forget to grab your free copy of the Chronicles of a Cardboard Cutout along with my eletter: Sign up (•‿•)

I Will Do Mine

Posted on October 29November 14

It began with the one and only @5stringtex (aka Jeff). He just had to go and recommend us some podcasts. This free-will thinker's podcast was among them. I was excited to find it at first. It turns out the dude just got his Ph.D. in matters related to free-will, his podcast has an episode where he is sympathetic to anarchy, AND he is conservative. This was especially cool because according to our friend Nathan, conservative-anarchy combinations are not possible. Nathan must travel in strange circles, as I see conservative ancaps all the time. Then again, I see elves all the time. Maybe I travel in strange circles. 

Anyway, I largely agree with the free-will thinker, but he had to go and drop some lines claiming Christians (in the US) should not vote for third-party candidates. In this he borrows from the William Lane Craig, quoting him thusly: “… anyone who votes for a third-party candidate who has no realistic chance of winning is guilty of a dereliction of duty.” After I read that, there was so going to be words.

Words

Some elaboration on that quote’s context is in order. First, Craig’s primary interest here is the advancement of biblical values in the public square. He is not voting Trump for the personality. Furthermore, he is mostly concerned about Christians leaving an important decisions to others, about poor influence-stewardship. (Maybe we can invent a new vice and call it: po’ flu-stew!) (No? Ok.)

Finally, Craig didn’t actually say that. Many have misquoted him so, but it’s not quite right. Under the ellipses, it turns out that Craig qualified his remark. He expressed hesitancy in admitting to a mere inclination. Specifically, he said, “I must confess, Ken, that I am inclined to think that anyone who votes for a third-party candidate . . .” and so on. (Yeah, it sounds stronger with the ellipses, and I’m not saying the difference is intentional, but c’mon!) With three concerns, I commend Craig’s slight agnosticism on this point.

Concern 1: It’s not clear that Craig is right. 

First, the fear of man is a snare, and the parties know the people are hooked. The custom of not voting third-party has taught the main parties that they only need to run the least horrible option to win. Unsurprisingly, candidates have worsened until the current president is only in power because he ran against the worst candidate in American history. So, the fear of voting third-party gives the main parties such a loose leash that they all but “determine who our leaders will be.”[1] But, if enough people vote for, say, an old school conservative like Ron Paul, the Republicans may take note. (Demand, meet supply.) If you really want to choose your candidates, vote third-party, vote your conscience.

Second, there is a time for every purpose, even for Christians to invest their votes. Craig’s view depends on a clear preference being evident among the candidates, but should a Republican candidate be practically as bad as a Democrat in terms of advancing biblical values, it seems the Christian is not compelled to vote for one over the other. In fact, if he does not vote third party, he might actually fail to steward well his opportunity to invest in better candidates. Whether one thinks Americans are close to that point in the current presidential race or not depends a great deal on one’s social theory, views on abortion, and hatred of war, but either way, Craig’s inclination depends on there being a clear preference between the two candidates, and this is not going be the case in every race this year. There aren’t even two candidates in every race.

Third, the claim that Christians voting third-party are neglecting a duty to wield influence, well it forgets a lot. For example, it forgets about red states. A Christian could vote for Mickey Mouse in a red state, and it would have zero effect on the electoral college and thus the outcome. The state is voting red regardless of that Christian's vote. Not much influence. Instead of voting Mickey Mouse, the Christian could give their conscience a break and invest their vote. It may be the only influence they really have.

Fourth, the po' flu-stew claim also forgets about oaths. Some people have taken an oath to protect the constitution. They may not be free to positively support the lesser of two underminings of the constitution. They may be required to vote Constitution Party if they vote at all. In my experience, such oaths were to protect kings. Those who had taken one were to stand with their king especially in unlikely odds. Joining the least threatening of the king’s enemies in their attack would have been thought such a foolish act of cowardice as to make their eventual death a welcome mercy on their soul. Ultimately, these Christians may be duty-bound to vote third-party, to write someone in, or to not vote at all. If so, then they are not forsaking duty but fulfilling it. So it seems Craig’s inclination may be mistaken yet again, and so I recommend his measure agnosticism yet again.

Fifth, someone once said that voting was one of the lowest means of activism, second only to participating in a political poll. If this is even partly true, then perhaps it is better for the voter to invest their vote with a clean conscience and then to get busy making real change with better resources. This seems applicable to that voter mentioned above, the one with two horrible candidates, in a non-swing state, having taken an oath to protect the constitution. For that person, it is less clear that God has much of a preference, let alone if his investing his vote is a dereliction of duty, and so I commend Craig’s- you know what I’m going to say here.

Concern 2: The principle of the thing.

A few other things bother me. First, there seems to be something profoundly wrong in advocating what you gravely detest. (Duh. Right?) This is a fundamental principle to me, but also there’s something unhealthy in acting against principle, in voting for someone you don’t favor, someone you find somewhat repulsive. In that respect, it seems somewhat wrong too, and the encouraging of others to do something that is bad for their hearts bothers me. I get that there are ethical nuances involved. Still, just as policy comes before personality, so principle comes before pragmatics, and voting against one's beliefs out of fear of consequences is the exact opposite of that. There is an invisible message on every ballot that reads: “Do it, or else.”[2] Personally, I admire more the man who stands on principle and shouts, “Do your worst for I will do mine!” than the one with an argument for saying, “Ok.”

Per Martkn Luther, to go against conscience is neither right nor safe. If a Christian being compelled by conscience can’t vote R or D, then isn't it better that they just stay at home or that they vote third-party? And, who would tell him to vote contrary to his conscience? For those who wouldn’t, yep, I recommend Craig’s measure of agnosticism on this matter.

If it is better to vote for what one truly believes (more righteous, more principled, more healthy) than it is to put your hand to some evil out of fear of a worse one, then Craig’s inclination is false. And, it may well be that it is truly better to vote for what one believes, so it is not clear that Craig’s inclination is correct.

Concern 3: Pragmatics of Principle. 

Let’s grant for the sake of argument, that it is better to vote for what one truly believes. Then what can we say? Positively, there is power in principle, in sticking by your guns, standing your ground, and living in truth. The Bible says God keeps the way of the righteous, that we are, in all our ways (even in voting) to honor God and that he will make our paths straight. Besides, terrans, what would your Vaclav Havel say about those who vote against their consciences? Would he say that they had to? that they were otherwise powerless against the state’s evil? or perhaps that they were complicit with their compromise?

But so what if being faithful and trusting in God, did lead into a storm? Are we willing to say, “Though he slay me I will trust in him?” That “He gives and takes away?” Or would we be quick to call a siren’s call our duty? If God intends a man to refuse the state’s deal, the deal of a decrease in the violation he and his children's rights if he just plays along, then he should refuse, and pray, come what may.

My Take-away

All this said, I like Dr. Craig’s work and his style. The free-thinker, Dr. Tim Stratton, seems cool too, for a bald guy. He ends his post with a humble and encouraging note saying that he is not trying to settle the debate, that he's just trying to inform others of his sense of things. It's hard to fault that. (So am I.) In fact, while I understand this particular objection to third-party voting, I also commend and recommend Craig’s caution about it. Now, to read Stratton’s book so I can recommend it too.[3] 

1. Given these considerations, if we also grant a real concern about the deepstate gaming the system, then the main-party voter chooses their own candidate even less. The conscientious voter, however, would not play in their hands and would resist such tyrannical manipulation.

2. Now, the objector may say that just as the perfect is the enemy of the good, the good is the enemy of the better and that all they are doing is voting for better. Better is not a bad thing to vote for, but their vote isn’t “let’s slaughter less innocents,” but rather “lets slaughter these innocents” (overseas) That seems like a bad vote, even if it happens to be fewer right now. That makes a difference to me especially because there are more effective ways to advocate for the innocents at home than voting R.

3. Actually, I have a part two to this post on the way. I may have to get to that first. Dang it. EDIT: Part two has arrived!

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